Amazon’s BOOST Event was the first annual FBA (Fulfilled By Amazon) conference for sellers on the platform. Long overdue guest Bill D’Alessandro joins us to give us his five biggest takeaways from BOOST, including new developments in international selling, protecting your brand on Amazon, multichannel fulfillment, and much more.
Bill learned that Amazon is focusing on international expansion and making Amazon even more attractive to sell with. Seller-Fulfilled Prime is also growing rapidly, and we discuss whether that’s a good thing for sellers, or just a smart play by Amazon.
We also cover the huge focus on exclusives and brand registry. Amazon must be hearing the feedback that sellers are struggling to protect their brands and making changes accordingly. And if you don’t have a trademark, you need to file for one right now.
Andrew: Welcome to the eCommerceFuel podcast. The show dedicated to helping high six and seven figure entrepreneurs build amazing online companies and incredible lives. I’m your host and fellow eCommerce entrepreneur, Andrew Youderian.
Hey, guys. Welcome to the eCommerceFuel podcast. Thanks for tuning in to the episode today, and I have a guest joining me that has been long overdue. I didn’t even know if he was still around, it’s been eons. Bill, where have you been?
Bill: I’ve been all over the place. You booted me off for six months, I’m so glad to be back.
Andrew: Well, you’re finally, you know, off of parole and like I think the terms are allowing you to make public appearances like this. So, I figured we got time to have you come back on.
Bill: Yeah, I was sending you letters from my prison cell for six months and you didn’t reply.
Andrew: And you know, I was a little hurt that…we won’t get to the details here on the show, but it was…it’s brutal what you did to me, man. I mean, you made amends, but that was dark.
Bill: Yeah, well, I’m back. I’m glad to be back on eCF Podcast.
Andrew: No, awesome to have you back. And of course, it’s been totally my fault you…your criminal record, as far as I know, is mostly clean. But yeah, we’re gonna talk about Boost today. And boost was the actually, I didn’t even go, I wasn’t able to make it out. Plus, I didn’t get an invite. I think it was an invite-only thing. Talking about Boost which is…can you tell people, if they haven’t heard about Boost, what it is?
Bill: Yeah. Boost was the first annual FBA, Fulfillment by Amazon Sellers’ Conference. So, to my knowledge, this was the first time Amazon has done sort of a big shebang event for their sellers. It was invite-only, but a lot of people got invites if you’re a Amazon seller of decent size. Andrew and Alex, you’re out of the game. You don’t have a Amazon selling account. It’s probably why you didn’t get your invite.
Andrew: I do. I do have even Amazon seller account. I would not qualify as one of decent size, though. It’s the only problem.
Bill: Okay. Gotcha. So yeah, they invited all their sellers to New York City. They rented out a big conference space on one of the piers of New York and it was a full day, wall-to-wall, all Amazon. And it was really cool to go up there and kind of put a face on the board, so to speak. You know, because when that sellers we’ve just email in the seller support and you got a sense that Amazon just doesn’t give a crap about you and they just think you’re an ant on Jeff Bezos’ as asks. And it was really cool to show up and to see they’re probably a thousand of people there.
To see, you know, a thousand of other FBA sellers all, you know, I can’t imagine how much revenue must have been in that room represented by all these FBA sellers. You know, all living breathing people, Amazons employees were out in force. They had…I would bet Amazon had at least a hundred or maybe 200 people there. A very accessible, they threw a big cocktail hour the night before at Tao Nightclub in New York, which is pretty neat. So, yeah, it was kind of…it was really cool to unmask, to see there are actually real people working in Amazon that care about us as sellers. But a lot of really cool takeaways for sellers, important takeaways for sellers about what’s coming over the next 12 months, and I’m excited to get into it.
Andrew: Yeah, we’re gonna dive on those in just one minute. One thing I want to ask though we…there is a big in ECF meet up that Jeremy Roberts helped to organized. Thank you, Jeremy. And it was hosted by Refersion that happened, and you went to that, right?
Bill: Yeah, I did. That was the night before. So, Jeremy Roberts organized it at Refersion’s headquarters. We have pizza and beer, it was great. There were probably about 30, maybe 40 people there. It’s a really good turnout. You see at first, it was also fun for me because it was kind of a different crew than I usually see. It was probably 25% were people I knew from ECF Live, but there was a different set that I had not met in person so it was cool to meet some faces from the form in person that I hadn’t before.
Andrew: Yeah, very cool. I’ll post a picture of the meet up in the show notes for this podcast. Jeremy, thank you. Refersion, again, thank you. And if you made it out, awesome, I’m glad you’re able to make it, and I wish I could’ve been there. So Boost, let’s talk, your key takeaways. So we’ve got a…you know, we’ve got four or five here, I have a couple, just having read up on it in the form of talking to other people.
But your first one from Boost was that Amazon is really talking about and focusing on international expansion. So can you talk about what they were focused on? Some of the tools? Because they were talking about how, you know, like 30% of products on sold in Amazon sell outside the U.S. and those are the fastest growing markets. I think the U.S. makes up only about 20% of eCommerce worldwide, so tons of opportunities, what is Amazon doing there?
Bill: Yeah, international is a huge focus, it was really interesting kinda of across all of the talks and the breakout sessions, it was really interesting to hear from a lot of high-level people at Amazon because you could kind of see the subconscious threads that were woven through all of the different keynote speeches. You could kind of see the shadow puppet hand of Jeff Bezos, you could see what these employees were kind of hearing about in the internal strategy meetings, and it was leaking into the things that they were telling us.
So, I was looking for kinda trends across what were all of the speakers touching on, and one of the big ones was international expansion. They had a whole session on how big international was growing, they had a breakout area, which is really cool, you could go over there, they would look up your seller account, and they would tell you what you need to do to get launched in the world and international markets.
It was cool, they demoed essentially if you guys have, basically, if ever used Taxify in the United States to kinda file your taxes State by State. Amazon has built a kinda European and global basically version of Taxify for VAT. Built in the Seller Central where they will automatically tabulate your sales by country and help you to fill out your VAT returns. It is live now for European sellers, Europe-based sellers, and is apparently coming to U.S. based sellers later this year or early next, which will do a lot to open the European market because VAT compliance is really the big bugaboo for all of us in the States expanding into Europe.
And so Amazon knows that, they’re very aware of that, and they’re building internal tools to make that easier. So you could tell the push is there. You know a lot of the keynotes they were hyping, you know, to our sellers how big and how fast-growing the international markets are and how easy it is. They had a whole Q&A’s on how to do Pan-European Fulfillment. International is a huge growth area for Amazon. So if you’re an Amazon seller, get out in front of that now.
Andrew: Are you going into Europe right now? I think that’s something you gotta start doing the elements branch?
Bill: We are. We just got our UK VAT number a few months ago, and we’re sending inventory. We also just got invited…this was not related to Boost, I don’t think, but we just got invited to sell on Amazon China which is very cool. And I’m not even heard of, I got to reach someone at amazon.com, reached out to me and said, “Do you want to sell on Amazon China?” And I immediately said, “Hell yes.” So they basically fast-tracked us through.
It was bizarre, like they sent me a PDF and I went to amazonsellercentral.amazon.china or whatever and it was all in Chinese. And there were arrows on the PDF telling you what to write in which fields. Well, I had to fill it out like totally blind in Chinese and then email this lady at Amazon and say, this is the email address that I used and I just got like five confirms with like a little bit of broken English but mostly all Chinese characters that surmised to me that I was approved. They ungated us for all of our categories in China so like we’re going for it. There’s no FBA in China yet, so it’s all Seller Fulfilled.
Andrew: All right, number two. So, the second thing is a Seller Fulfillment Prime. You mentioned that they were really pushing this at the event.
Bill: Yes, big push on Seller Fulfilled Prime. At the head of the Seller Fulfilled Prime program at the cocktail hour, and then he said, “There’s a huge uptake of sellers using the Seller Fulfilled Prime program.” It really doesn’t make a ton of sense if you’re doing small and light things but if you’re doing oversized things, it makes all the sense in the world. They’re really pushing it, they just rolled out. You can now use your own negotiated rates to do Seller Fulfilled Prime instead of having to use the rack rates inside of Seller Central so you can link your FedEx and postal service account into Seller Central and now use your negotiator rates, which was a huge win. That just came out a few weeks ago, and they’re also building out much better strategic control or granular control over which states you’ll offer prime to, Seller Fulfilled Prime.
So he says they’re seeing New York growth in Seller Fulfilled Prime, and I think it’s very important to Amazon because, you know, while they were also at the conference, they kind of doubled down on Multi-Channel Fulfillment. They said, they’re gonna always keep doing that, at the same time they’re pushing Seller Fulfilled Prime because we all know that Fulfillment Centers are packed to the gills. And then you can see it with the removal fee specials and extra fees at Christmas. And also, by the way…I don’t know if you got this email too, Andrew, but I just got yesterday or maybe this morning an email from Amazon saying the prices are going up for Multi-Channel Fulfillment.
Andrew: No, I didn’t see that. I haven’t been getting long-term storage fees that have jacked up the last three, four months, it seems like. So yeah, it seems like they’re doing everything they can do to free up warehouse space.
Bill: Yes. They seem committed to Multi-Channel Fulfillment although they did raise the price and are also pushing Seller Fulfilled Prime pretty hard.
Andrew: So two questions on that, the first for Seller Fulfilled Prime. Is that good for merchants or is it just good for Amazon? Because as you mentioned you can take advantage of your own negotiated rates, but I’m guessing even really great negotiator rates for elements branch aren’t gonna be nowhere near the negotiator rates for Amazon so, you know, that they can give you when you’re using FBA. So why do was it, what’s the advantage for doing for the oversize like you mentioned?
Bill: It’s because the fulfillment fee can be so astronomical. Like if you sell a TV through FBA, your fulfillment fee might be $50 unlike that bakes in Amazon’s freight cost but it’s also their handling fee is so expensive. You know, I’m in North Carolina, so I could probably ship a TV…even if I ship it ground to Georgia, it will probably be there in a day, right? So that will be prime-level, it will be within two days but I can use a cheap class of service.
So it might be cheaper for me to eat the shipping than it would be for me to eat the fulfillment fee for large stuff, which is why it doesn’t make sense for small stuff because my fulfillment fee for a bottle of sunscreen in Amazon is three bucks, right? But, you know, can’t ship a package really anywhere for much cheaper than that. So it doesn’t make sense for small stuff but for the big stuff where your fulfillment fees get in the 10s, 20s, 30s of dollars for local stuff, it can be much easier for you to just ship it straight out of your warehouse.
You can save money but also you can save inbound freight to Amazon, you can save any FBA prep fees, you know, when you rack up all the stuff that actually…it’s not just the per unit fulfillment fee, you gotta get it into FBA and you gotta have it prepped, so, you know, it works in certain situations. It’s not…you wouldn’t just switch entirely to Seller Fulfilled Prime, what you do is you configure Amazon and say, make for customers who are logged in who I know live within this radius of my fulfillment center, I will do Seller Fulfilled Prime for them because it’s cheaper. So it’s on you to do those calculations, but you can save money.
Andrew: Going to Multi-Channel Fulfillment with Amazon. They say, you know that it’s something that they’re really committed to, that they’re planning on continuing to offer in the future. How can they be serious about that like, because you still can’t use Multi-Channel Fulfillment with no branding, right? Like everything that goes out has an Amazon label on the box, is that correct?
Bill: Yes. Yeah, still.
Andrew: So how, like how is any serious brand that worries about their brand and customer experience, gonna use Amazon for Multi-Channel Fulfillment?
Bill: You have to ask somebody that does that. I don’t do that. I think it comes on people who don’t have the fulfillment that don’t have another choice. There’s a pretty big fixed cost hurdle to have your own warehouse. So I think a lot of branches prior to say, “Whatever. We’ll take it in the teeth. It’s cheaper than having our own warehouse.”
Andrew: Yeah, crazy. Third thing that you mentioned was a big takeaway was a huge focus on exclusives.
Bill: Yes, exclusives and the next one, brand registry, which are kind of the tied together. There was a big focus on…which I was actually glad to see, on protecting your brand on Amazon, which I think they must be hearing our feedback about how it really sucks to be brand on Amazon with hijackers and not being able to control your listings. So there is a huge focus, they have a whole keynote on Amazon exclusives. They’re really pushing as a way to bring new brands to the market, they had Mark Cuban company’s head of Biz Dev up there was saying that all of the new investments that Mark Cuban does, they take in the market through Amazon exclusives. And I think it really kinda…my big takeaway was it tips a hand on how Amazon feels about brands.
Andrew, we were talking about before we got on, Scott Galloway from NYU has talked about the death of brands and he thinks that Amazon is trying to disinter mediate brands, and take all of the margin out of brands and give it back to consumers with private label programs. But I don’t think that’s what was going on at all, what I think is going on is that Amazon doesn’t care whether they sell one unit of a big brand or one unit of a small brand as long as the small brand is highly rated. And I think a good example of that is the brand Anchor, which if you shop for electronics accessories on Amazon you probably know, chargers, cables, battery packs. Amazon would just gladly sell an Anchor cable instead of Belkin cable, it doesn’t matter to Amazon as long as the Anchor cable is better rated and provides a better customer experience. So, Amazon I think definitely sees the strategic that they have on Amazon smaller, high-quality brands like an Anchor that customers can’t get in store at Best Buy.
So it gives amazon.com a defensible reason for you to shop there instead of at retail, and they are willing to promote those brands on a totally level and fair playing field with the big brands which you don’t get in stores and that’s really what they were pushing. In their Amazon Exclusives keynote their whole conversation was, look how much better selling at Amazon is than selling wholesale at a store. And they said, you know, you get in addition to giving us less margin…because a retail will take 50 or 40% off retail, but they take less than that. In addition to that, they really hard on the feedback loop of reviews, you get to read customer reviews and spin that feedback if I will a lot faster and so that it was kinda funny because they push on and is so much better than retail. But on the other hand, I’m thinking the huge elephant in the room is, “Yeah, but it’s still so much worse than selling on your own website,” which they just didn’t touch at all because, you know, they didn’t mention that.
Andrew: They didn’t ask that? They’re like, “Hey, excuse me. Over here.”
Bill: Yeah, I don’t wanna bite the hand that feeds. You’ll probably never hear from me again. But they were very big on Amazon as a wonderful channel to sell on, but they positioned it as versus retail, which they’re absolutely right about but they didn’t touch on versus your own .com.
Andrew: Yeah, interesting. And that trademarks of brand registry has changed too, like they was kind of some discussions we’ve had in the form of kinda…I don’t know if it’s the actual way of referring to our versus the trend has caught on in the community but brand registry 1.0 versus 2.0. And before you could just go on and register your brand without a trademark, but going forward, if you want to be registered in the brand registry, be able to control your listings, take action as people that you’re doing kind of the stuff, you gotta be like actually have a registered trademark, right?
Bill: Yes. That the bottom line take, one of the biggest takeaways is if you don’t have a trademark, you need to file for it right now. Amazon has clearly decided that having your trademark is what they’re gonna consider owning the brand. If you don’t have a trademark, they don’t even consider it a brand and they’re not gonna give you any protection at all. So go get your trademarks right now. They were so heavy on this at the conference that I genuinely think that Amazon’s new policies are going to drive an uptick in U.S. PTO trademark applications because if you wanna sell on Amazon, you’re gonna need a trademark period. And I think every brand is gonna wanna sell on Amazon, so there’s gonna be a huge influx of trademarks which is probably gonna increase the wait time, so get on it. I would get your trademark applications filed now.
It’s also very important to note that when you are filing for your trademarks, the patent trademark office has several classes or types, I think, of trademarks and they number them. The only types of trademarks that Amazon is going to accept for brand registry is type one and type four or class one and class four. One of those is like the generic word mark which is pretty hard to get, and one of them is, I think, logo mark. But class one and class four, you need one of those two types of trademarks if you’re gonna wanna get brand registered in the future, basically from here on out, so get your trademarks now.
Andrew: And then finally, kinda the last takeaway. I heard this from a lot of people, Bill, was there’s this kind of sentiment that people got the sense that Amazon actually cares about their sellers. I mean, you talk about it at the top like in so many times you look at Amazon as kind of this borg-type creature, you feed it data, and you shovel in products, and you get a bunch of automated replies.
Occasionally, you hear from somebody over there, but it’s a very faceless organization that can take you, relieve you of the horror stories of people getting their accounts shut down and just wallowing and going out of business. You know the sense from so many people was that they get a little bit more of a human empathetic sense from Amazon. Did you get that? And if so, specifically, what was is it that was driving them?
Bill: Yes, I did. I did get that, and you know, part of it was just seeing that there were actual human beings here and not just, you know automated replies. But I did get the sense.
Andrew: I have this used like Jean-Luc Picard walking among, you know, all the Amazon employees, i.e. the board.
Bill: Yes, I’ve…I kind of like expected all the employees to like attend by telepresence robot or something, you know what I mean? But they were all…they were super nice like everybody that talked like genuinely seemed to care. They also gave us…if you registered, you got 15 minutes one on one with the seller support, a concierge-level seller support person, you could talk about anything you wanted. So everybody got 15 minutes plus they had like a desk with 10 of them, you could wait in line for more time, if you wanted. And it was really cool, they also had representatives from all the fulfillment centers, they had people that were front line and if you had questions about your ASONs, like I walked up to them and I said, “Hey, I like to put in my account.” And they pull up my account in the backend and I’m looking over his shoulder at like what the fulfillment center associates see like about our ASONs, about our account.
That was really cool and they were super transparent about like, “Here’s what think is going on, here’s why that happened,” and you can see that they’re not BSing you because you can just see the log. So that was pretty cool, and I use my time, and I’ve talked to some of the bigger sellers in the ECF community about this, I use my time with the seller support to talk about suspensions and about how, you know, even large sellers, you get like one. Even if it’s fraudulent, like a counterfeit claim from one of your competitors, and Amazon will shut down your whole account until you appeal. And you know, we had actually a very bad experience with our top selling ASON being shut down for fraudulent use sold as a new complaint that wasn’t true. In May, we lost probably $12,000, $15,000 of sales before we were able to get reinstated.
And you know, so I talked about that and I told them some of the bigger sellers, we’re gonna be putting together a letter to Jeff just to say, “We’re trying to do well by you guys. We need a little bit more handholding. You can’t just shoot a seven-figure business in the head and ask questions later. This is people’s lives we had on the line.” So I was able to talk with them about that. They were really, really supportive, I mean, the people genuinely understood like, “Wow, that’s a very bad seller experience. We really don’t want that to happen. I’m gonna escalate that to the right people, you know, so they hear this.” And I watched the guy take notes and fire it off to somebody’s name at Amazon while I was sitting there.
So I got a sense they really did care, but at the same time, the other sense that I really got is how big and how decentralized Amazon really is. Like what…I talked to any single Amazon employee I talked to, he could tell me very, very deep about where they’re going in that specific area that he worked in, was totally transparent about the roadmap and seemed genuinely wanna help but didn’t know anything about anything outside of their vertical. So you could really get a sense that, you know, Jeff Bezos calls them pizza teams which he says, “A team is too big if you can’t feed them with two pizzas.”
You get a sense that Amazon is just like this hive of pizza teams and that everybody is working on their one little program, you know, Seller Fulfilled Prime, international expansion, you know, whatever it might be, and they don’t have any sense for what’s going on across the business and I got the sense that was very hard for them to even get in touch with people in other units.
I was like, I was talking to this seller support guy and he was shaking his head, he was like, “Yeah, that’s on the seller performance team. They won’t even talk to us, we can’t even get them on the phone,” he goes, “I imagine them all in like black hoods, like hunched over their computers.” So like, I really dig it to sense, it’s just super…and it’s not siloed on purpose, it’s siloed in a disorganized, organized chaos kind of way where every team is just kinda doing their own thing and trying to improve and do better, which I get as a way to run the organization.
And it scares me, but at the same time, it makes you realize that when you talk to people at Amazon and they can’t help you and they bounce you around the teams, it makes me understand that they’re not lying to you. They genuinely don’t really have any power outside of their own little vertical, which I think is kinda shitty from a customer service sampling.
Andrew: One last thing I wanna touch on was enhanced brand content and it sounds like video is coming to the enhanced pages. They’re rolling in more templates, and the thing that caught my attention the most…and I read about this, didn’t get a lot of detail, maybe you have more is the ability to stay in contact with brand followers via email, which is sort of interesting, very unlike Amazon. Any thoughts on that or did you hear much about that at the event?
Bill: I didn’t hear it, I did hear about the video coming in enhanced brand content pages. They’re pushing brand registry in order to get enhanced brand content, so, again, get your trademarks. So yeah, they definitely want enhanced brand content, they mentioned that in the exclusives page about how you can keep that whole kind of feel to have that work with you, like if you’re a Kickstarter brand to bring that feel to enhance brand content. So they’re definitely pushing enhanced brand content, but I did not hear anything about you actually being able to keep in touch with brand followers via email. Did you have any more contexts for that or was that just something you heard through the grapevine?
Andrew: No, I just heard that someone mentioned it in the forum and I didn’t…that’s why I was hoping you did. It sounded very unlike Amazon.
Bill: It does. I would be shocked to see them really, really let you do that.
Andrew: Yeah, I’m gonna try to follow up with that. So on the context, it sounds like you sat down. Was it worth it? Do you feel like some of the contacts you made with Amazon, the non-board at Amazon, are people that you could just drop an email to and get one-on-one help? Like do you feel like you were able to make really meaningful, deep connections with decently how other people at Amazon?
Bill: Yes, kind of. There are a few people, like the people that I met, you know, like the Seller Fulfilled Prime guy, he’d return my email. But I got the sense that he can’t help me with anything except Seller Fulfilled Prime. And because this conference is actually put on by FBA, not Amazon, so it was a little bit limited in scope to FBA-related things. So yeah, I’ve got some contacts like if I ever…if I’d need genuine help with Seller Fulfilled Prime, like yeah, I can call this guy.
Or if I need genuine help with expanding into Europe like, yes, now I have a guy I can call, but I didn’t get the sense…there wasn’t a broad representation from Amazon there in other areas that were not FBA but was it worth going? Absolutely, hell yeah, for one, it was $300 and a quick trip to New York. So to get the kind of insights, you know, that I’ve shared with you guys on this podcast, it was worth it to see people in person, to get kind of the kick in the ass, I always get a kick in the ass from a live event anyway.
And just the tidbits that you kinda pick up, I’ve tried to expound on a lot of it on this podcast for you guys but as you know, there’s really no substitute to hearing in person, meeting people over a cocktail, any sense for where Amazon is going. I mean, if your title a livelihood is wrapped up on Amazon, which, let’s be serious, most of ours is at this point. If not entire, at least the critical enough amount that you don’t wanna lose it. Spend one day of your life in 300 bucks? Hell yeah.
Andrew: Yeah, very cool. A few people I wanna thank, Jeff Forgrave, Blake Anderson, Carol Reigns, Jimmy Roberts, Rex Bledsoe, and Micahel Dugan as well as a bunch of other people. There was a really great thread in the forums that a lot of this…obviously, I wasn’t there, and apart from some other reading where I got a lot of these takeaway points that I was able to bounce back and forth with you, Bill, and get some more details on. So thank you to everyone who contributed there who went to the meet up. And Bill thanks for coming on and being able to talk about a little bit more substance fully than myself who wasn’t at the event.
Bill: Glad to do it. You should come next year.
Andrew: Yeah, I’ll do my best to be there next year. And actually gonna come out, I’m excited, in September, October, as a lot of forum members will know doing a seven-day seven-city tour to really just host a lot of meet ups across the country and connect with community members. And you were gracious enough even though you’re leaving the next morning for a wedding or something, you’re gonna be hosting, myself and everyone else, in Charlotte at your headquarters in late September which…I’ve seen the old ones, which were pretty cool. I’m excited to see the new ones because I haven’t seen them since you remodeled them.
Bill: Yeah, we remodeled our entire HQ, moved in, in January, so come on out to the Charlotte ECF meet up, we’re hosting it here. There will be free beer on Andrew, show you around the HQ. You already said that, right?
Andrew: We will be, yeah.
Bill: Yeah, free beer on Andrew. I’ll show you around the HQ, you can see our warehouse, you can see all of our offices that we built a few months ago and meet everybody in person. It will be fun.
Andrew: Very cool. It’s exclusively for our community members. If you’re not a member, you can head over to ecommercefuel.com/apply to learn more and apply, and if you are, just check out the form for the thread on all the details. So Bill, miss having you on man. We’re gonna have to do it again soon. Thanks you so much.
Bill: Sure thing. Thanks for having me.
Andrew: Want to connect with and learn from other proven eCommerce entrepreneurs? Join us in the eCommerceFuel private community. It’s our tight-knit, vetted group for store owners with at least a quarter million dollars in annual sales. You can learn more and apply for membership at eCommerceFuel.com. Thanks so much to our podcast producer, Laura Serino for all of her hard work in making this show possible, and to you for tuning in, thank you for listening. That will do it for this week, but looking forward to seeing you again next Friday.
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