Ever hear the saying, “Location, location, location!” Though it’s a phrase coined by realtors hoping to move some fixer uppers in a prime neighborhood, even entrepreneurs are often stuck on where to run their business from. From networking opportunities and potential investors to income tax rates, it’s often a balance between what a business needs and what an owner wants.
Big city boy Drew Sanocki and I share our individual experiences with running a business in a big city and in a rural area. From the top perks to the biggest downfalls, we discuss what you need to know when deciding on the best place to run a business.
The Full Conversation
Andrew: Thank you so much for joining me today. Here in Bozeman, Montana of course, as always and a show I’ve wanted to do for quite a while is a little Bozeman, Montana versus New York City showdown. The only man I could think to bring on to do that, Mr. Drew Sanocki, broadcasting from, where are you Times Square right now?
Drew: Times Square. Yes, live in Times Square. Mr. New York City.
Andrew: That sounds like a really productive place to work.
Drew: It’s very productive, very productive.
Andrew: Ah man, I’m already parched. My chances of winning this debate are going down.
Drew: Time Square is kind of a miserable place to work. It’s just, I try to walk to work and I walk to work from the upper west sides. It’s about a 2-mile walk, and the culmination is just coming through wall-to-wall tourists for about five blocks. It’s annoying as heck getting through.
Andrew: You just get into a vibe, right into the flow and them somebody asks you to come up and take their picture. That happens every 10 minutes.
Drew: It’s just so crowded every day going to and from work. If I take the subway, the subway’s crowded. If I walk, it’s miserable. I’m sure we’ll get into this, but that’s work in Times Square.
Andrew: I was kind of joking, had this mind’s image of you out on a desk, hour glass, life on the street working Times Square but you really work right in Times Square, right?
Drew: Yes. I am at 39th and Broadway. So it’s a block south.
Andrew: Very cool. So this will be a fun one to do. We’re going to get into the nuts and bolts. Not nuts and bolts, the mudslinging of where should you live, New York or Montana coming up. Quickly before we get into that, as always, want to do a First Sale shout out.
This one goes out to Caleb Booleary, who writes in says, “I’m a co-owner of astrobilliards.com, a billiard supply store. Yesterday, we had our first sale after a few months with a live site. We had two other sales before in some friends and family site, but we had some management issues with our inventory, so this is the first we were actually able to fulfill.” That’s got to be pretty frustrating. “So I decided to see where this goes and just wanted to thank you and your guests for all of the inspiration.” Caleb, that’s awesome man. If it makes you feel better, my first sale, got returned. So you are not alone with inventory issues or at least problematic first sales. Congratulations and keep it up man. Excited to see how things go for you.
All right, let’s get into it. Without further adieu, Montana versus New York City.
I’ve been billing this, billing this fight. Setting this up as to be very Montana New York, Bozeman New York City specific, but really, Drew, you and I have been wanting to talk about this for a while. On most of the issues we’re going to talk about really can be extrapolated out to bigger issues of where should you headquarter your business, where should you live? A big city? A rural area? Both from a financial and a business standpoint and just from a quality of life forum. I feel bad, you being in New York with all the pollution and the busyness. Are you like mentally capable and fit, are you ready to do this? I feel bad diving into this.
NYC VS. Bozeman or City VS. Country
Drew: I’m glad you made it, it’s got to be rural versus city. I think if you just went Montana versus New York, there’s no one else listening to the podcast. Montana. Maybe some moose or something.
Drew: I mean that’s not intended as a low blow, I just don’t know how many people on the podcast are located in Montana. What is the population of Montana?
Andrew: We’ve got, I mean…
Drew: So you were doing the entire state of Montana versus the city of New York.
Andrew: I’m just doing, I think we should do, you’re right I think it needs to be rural versus urban. You’re right. Yeah.
Andrew: To answer your question, I think we just broke a million people in the entire state of Montana.
Drew: Okay, okay.
Andrew: Like as many people there is, oh…
Drew: Like a tenth of what are in the New York metropolitan area?
Andrew: Exactly, so maybe this isn’t wise of me to piss of a bunch of New Yorkers on the podcast here. Let’s start with why we love our respective areas and I’ll give five very legitimate reasons and you can give five, fairly easy to knock over reasons why New York is great. I’ll go ahead and start. I was looking, happened to get online and my number one reason is because Montana is just a way better state for business than New York. If you look at Forbes, Forbes does a report every year. I think 2013 is the most recent one they did. Montana ranked in the top 10 of most business friendly states. New York, eh, not so much it ranked dead last. Even behind California, the place where new businesses go to die. In just regulation and just taxes and everything. Income tax in Montana, 1 percent to a max of 6.9, I think New York starts at 4 and goes up to 9 percent. You file a LLC here, you start a new business.
Drew: No, no, it goes up to 13 percent here.
Andrew: Is it?
Drew: Because you’ve got a city and state tax.
Andrew: Ooh, okay.
Andrew: Drew, you’re supposed to be positioning for New York City.
Drew: I don’t disagree with this reason, by the way. I agree with this one.
Reason #1: Montana Is A Great Place to Do Business VS. New York’s Diversity
Andrew: So that’s my number one reason why I love Montana, not just to smear New York, but it’s a good place to do business.
Drew: My number one reason, I wouldn’t go with business first because I don’t think New York is the best place to start certain businesses. I love New York because it’s the greatest city on the face of the Earth.
Andrew: Why is it? It’s a pretty bold statement. Just because it says that on a t-shirt in a souvenir shop does not mean it’s true.
Drew: You’ve got 7 to 10 million people in the city. There’s just everything here. There’s diversity, and people in my social group in just where do you want to go out to eat, and what do you want to do. It’s just there’s an energy in this city that I haven’t felt anywhere else in the world. Maybe Tokyo, something like that. People come to New York from all over the world to try to make it, and there’s just that hardworking kind of energy no matter where you turn. I’ll give you an example of one of my favorite New York nights. It’s when you go out to maybe friend has a book party or book launch party and you go out to that book launch party and then you meet just a bunch of interesting people there. People from the publishing world or people who have great ideas about something you never really thought much about. Be it’s history or art or something like that, and you hear at the book party that a bunch of people are going to a gallery opening after that. Then you might go from there to a late night a 10 or 11 p.m. dinner, which is common in Europe, but in the US where else can you do something like that. After that maybe you go clubbing. This story is from my single life, but…
Andrew: I was going to say this sounds, is this all with your recent children?
Drew: This doesn’t happen now, but. Then you go to a club and you might meet interesting people there, and the evening culminates with brunch somewhere in the meat packing district at 5 a.m. or something. You stumble home and… I love that kind of serendipity. I think because there’s so many people in such a small space, if you are opened up to serendipity, it’s a great place to let things happen and be exposed to a bunch of different ideas. That’s only the city. When you start exploring outside the city, New York and New England are great places because you’ve got Four Seasons, you’ve got the summer in the Hamptons on beautiful beaches. I think some of the most beautiful beaches in the country. You can go upstate if you like getting outdoors. It’s just really a wonderful place to live. I would put that as that lifestyle reason is my number one reason to do business here.
Andrew: Here’s one, this wasn’t in my official list, and I can’t speak to this directly having never lived in New York City, but Annie, Annie lived in New York for a while, grew up in Montana. I think it was also a stereotype or whether it’s true or not. People in the city are much more guarded. Somebody says hi to you walking down the street in New York City, it’s kind of a red flag. If somebody doesn’t in Montana it’s kind of odd. Is that? So you talk about serendipity meeting people. That sounds great if you’ve got a group. What if you’re trying to break into a new group of people? You move to New York City, you haven’t been there for a while.
Drew: Yeah, I kind of think it’s a bad reputation that East Coast people or maybe New York people are rude. They’re more open, I think, which, you know they kind of speak their mind. I haven’t lived in Montana. I’ve lived in San Francisco though. I found San Francisco to be a very… like San Francisco had teams in the world series and when I was there in 2003, the first time the giants were in, you wouldn’t know it walking around the street, whereas here, it’s like you can strike up a conversation with the guy in the deli or the cop on the street corner. Just that kind of openness which I think comes through in a lot of the sitcoms that are based in New York. I find that really refreshing and I think, I’ve talked to people who have come to New York and said, you know, what the people are a lot more open and friendly than I expected. They speak their mind, but it’s very easy to have conversations with people here.
Andrew: Okay. Give you the opportunity, but I’m not quite ready to concede that point. I’m going to have to come to New York to do some more study before I can tally for the official argument count.
Drew: Maybe that would lead to my second point.
Andrew: Okay, go for it.
Reason #2: Networking Opportunities VS. Reasonable Employee Salaries
Drew: I will take number two. The second reason to base your company or to work out of New York is because of the networking and I think it’s just you’ve got so many people, so many different companies in a small area that it’s very easy to network. In my co-working space for example, here in Times Square, there are probably five e-commerce retailers, a bunch of SEO people, a bunch of paper click people. There are people who know manufacturing, and in many ways if I need anything, if I need to talk to a lawyer or e-commerce company, anything, I can just poke around within my co-working space and that’s just my one co-working space, there’s no fewer than probably 10 within a couple blocks. Then if you expand out to the whole city, you’ve got companies here like e-commerce companies like Gil Group or Fab or just have a lot of talent here. I would say the networking is probably the next reason why I’d want to base a company here.
Andrew: Let’s see, my number two for why I love doing business in Montana is that salaries here are not over inflated. You can get pretty highly talented people for pretty low wage. Partially because, and this is coming as an e-commerce entrepreneur as a location independent entrepreneur, but the cost of living’s a lot lower here. You don’t have as much competition for people and a lot of people want to live, especially like in places like Bozeman, lot of great mountains, recreational opportunities. There’s a lot of competition for people wanting to live here. It’s very much employer’s marketplace. You don’t want take advantage of people and pay them enough where they can’t scrape by. I don’t think that works well for anyone, but you can get talent really cheaply. I know of engineers who come out of school and a couple years experience and click 40K per year, which is just crazy. If you’re looking to hire in New York City. Oh man, hiring talent there, when I tried to hire for our community manager, contact community manager here. I think I looked in New York City the first time, it didn’t work out because people there wanted like just so much more than made sense for when I could hire from places like Omaha, Nebraska or across the country. If someone doesn’t have to pay $3,000 a month in rent, then it’s much more feasible for them to take something that’s more reasonable on the salary side.
Drew: Yeah, no argument from me on that one. It’s definitely expensive to hire people in New York City.
Reason #3: No Commutes VS. Big Exposure and Prestige
Andrew: Yeah, so I’ll jump ahead, and my number three reason I love Montana for business, no commute. Almost no commute at all. My office is 5 minutes from my house, there’s almost, there’s very rarely traffic that holds me up. I can hop on a bike and for 90 percent or at least 80 percent of the time on a little trail, back trail I can just ride really nicely. My commute’s, I really enjoy it. I don’t have to be stuck in traffic for an hour both ways. Or walk two miles through throngs of tourists in Times Square.
Drew: I think New York, I would most people not enjoy their commute, but most people who work in the city, live in the city, so the commute is max a half hour maybe if you allow Brooklyn. If you don’t enjoy your, a long commute, New York is also a city for you.
Andrew: See again. I can contest that a little bit. You really think that most people who work in the city live in Manhattan?
Drew: Oh I don’t know the exact numbers. Yeah, I would say most people that work in Manhattan live within Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens yeah, I think that’s a little more typical.
Andrew: You mean it’s a half an hour average commute.
Drew: I’ve got friends who live in outer Brooklyn, who maybe it’s 45 minutes to get to mid town.
Andrew: Huh. Okay, I was thinking for a lot of Daddy Yorkers to be, people who own, people who live in a big city in general, you’d be looking at a lot of times an hour plus both ways, but maybe that’s fringe cases.
Drew: It’s definitely, I think if you start, and this is getting into some of my con, and so I don’t want to elaborate too much, but you’ve got a family, you move to the suburbs, like Westchester, New Jersey, Connecticut and you’re talking about an hour.
Andrew: Yeah. So Drew your number four.
Drew: I think I was on number three.
Andrew: Number three. Sorry, I’m trying to short change the number of pros for living in a big city.
Drew: The big prestige and exposure. I think if you base a business in New York, you’re seen as a little bit more legitimate, maybe more of a player. You’re certainly close to more capital if you want to raise money, and more acquirers. I think, I mean I know, I’ve worked with certain private equity funds that part of their investment thesis is they would go out and they would buy companies that are located in rural areas, SaaS companies for example and bring them to New York or bring them to the Bay Area because they feel it sets them up better for an exit. The multiples expand just because you have the legitimacy of New York postal address or a Palo Alto one. And you get on the radar with more companies that may potentially acquire your company. If you are talking about being a boot strapped e-commerce retailer and you’re happy with that and you’re doing it for a lifestyle and you never want to sell, then this reason doesn’t apply to you, but I think maybe if you are aspiring to sell to one of these bigger companies that is located in a major metropolitan area then it would be a reason to be close to them.
Andrew: Yeah, makes sense. Definitely makes sense, especially on the funding side and if you’re going to go for a big exit. What about number four for you?
Reason #4: Living in the Epicenter VS. Easy Living
Drew: I kind of think location. I feel like I’m saying almost the same thing in every reason. I came up with location. New York has a couple of things going for it on location. Well, first, from a lifestyle perspective, one thing my wife and I love about it, is that we see a lot of our friends at least once a year. And it’s because people do business in New York, they fly through New York. I’m talking about college friends, high school friends, buddies from business school. Everybody swings through New York at some point, and because of that, we always have friends over for dinner, friends we haven’t seen in a while, friends stay on our sofa and we don’t have to move. I would guess in Bozeman, you don’t have people always passing through Bozeman. So it’s location element, right and there’s also professionally if you’re raising capital, I know VC’s who they’ll only invest in portfolio companies that are along certain flight paths so, I know a handful of New York, San Francisco VC’s to whom I’ve pitched companies in Seattle, and companies in D.C. and they say, you know what, could be, this company really sounds interesting, but I got a family at home and all my portfolio companies are in New York and San Francisco and I’d like to keep it that way. I think by being based in New York or San Francisco, I would say New York or San Francisco, you’re certainly open to more professional connections that way. Then the last thing that has to do with location is if you are somehow catering to the media or the finance industries, there maybe no better place than New York to do that because so many of them are based here. So if you run a services company or SaaS company that sells to hedge funds, investment houses, publishers, you really want to be in New York because that’s where they’re located.
Andrew: Yeah, definitely the publishing. Just epicenter of the entire, well at least the U.S. if not the world. My number four or I’ll shift a little bit into lifestyle versus business. Just gorgeous natural surroundings. I mean it’s different things for different folks, I got hiking within 5 minutes of my house, I got skiing within 15 minutes away. The air is really clean here. It’s beautiful we got like 300 days of sunshine per year even if it gets pretty cold. It’s just gorgeous out and driving to work being able to look at that, being able to get off early and to be able to do that on the weekends without having to fight two to three hours outside of a big metro area to get there is pretty cool. Because the more accessible it is, the more you take advantage of it. And then finally number five, it’s just really safe here. It’s funny we were talking about something in the forum about UPS delivery of packages for e-commerce and stuff, and I was a little bit confused about why something was a problem because in Montana, UPS leaves packages on the front doors. They don’t lock anything up. A lot of times people won’t lock their doors. It’s just, there’s crime everywhere. It’s a great place, it’s a super safe place. Great place to raise a family, great place to not have to worry about that kind of stuff. Those are my four and five.
Drew: I like those two. I love New York City, I think it’s beautiful but I know that certain people don’t. I think Central Park’s beautiful. I had trouble living in San Francisco because I wasn’t, like I get up at 6 a.m. and mountain bike kind of guy. I was a…
Andrew: You’re a 7 a.m. right?
Drew: Yeah, well I was kind of like, let’s sleep in and go get brunch at noon, and read the New York Times kind of guy. I think I love the beauty of this urban environment, this built environment. When I take a train out to the Hamptons or take a train up to Cold Spring to go hiking. There’s tons of natural beauty here but it is a bit of a schlep to get out of the city, especially when you have kids. It’s not just right here around you if you want that kind of natural beauty. And I can’t speak to the air quality. I’ve got like five air filters in my apartment and the filters are black every time I change them, which is like monthly.
Andrew: If you have severe asthma, don’t move to New York City.
Drew: They’re surrounding my…
Andrew: It could be worse, it could be Beijing.
Drew: My kids crib, it’s like five filters, yeah.
Andrew: Drew, did you have one last one for pro.
Drew: I did, I had more talent to hire. I acknowledge that it’s expensive, I think that there’s a huge talent base here. So you can really get niche. You can find talent to do most anything.
Andrew: Perfect, so moving on to… oh go ahead.
Drew: I would add that there’s a lot of… you got a lot of services here. There’s a lot of like Postmates for example. Rolled out here and in San Francisco. I don’t think you have Postmates in Bozeman, right?
Andrew: No Uh-uh.
Drew: I can pull up my app and I can have some guy on a bike. They are rotating around the city right now. I could tell it to pull into Trader Joe’s and buy me the following things and have it at my apartment. I’ve got the same kind of services for a chef. I could just log in to EatTribal right now, order up my dinner and it’s going to be with my doorman when I get home. For those kind of services, I think are pretty cool. I know I’d miss them if I ever lived outside of the city.
And Now for the Cons…
Andrew: Yeah, that’s a perfect segway to moving into some of the downsides for a location.
Drew: The cons.
Andrew: Because as much as you and I, especially me, I seem to be the more adversarial one in this discussion. As much as we’d like to rip on the other person’s place, there’s a lot of times where I know, I’m sure for you and especially for myself, I’m like man, I love living here but there’s some stuff that drives me crazy. Thinking about moving somewhere bigger a different place. Kicking it off, what you just mentioned all of the services. You’re in Bozeman, Montana, you don’t get a lot of apps and programs that are available. All the cool things you talked about. Uber, no. There’s no Uber here in Bozeman. Things like, I was trying to sign up for ZenPayroll, which is I thought a really cool payroll solution. Wasn’t available in Montana, it was available in New York of course. But a lot of those things that show up in New York in 2015 will roll into Montana in 2018 or 2019, five years later. That’s something that for me, that’s one that is tough. Another one is, I’ll just hit on my number two here, it’s not harder to travel, but it’s definitely more expensive. I was looking at going to Austin, for an event a couple months ago and round trip ticket to Austin out of Bozeman were like $900. Which is just crazy, if you’re flying from…
Drew: That is crazy.
Andrew: Yeah, if you’re going from like LaGuardia to Austin, what 300 bucks maybe 250 round trip something like that?
Drew: Anywhere. Do you guys have an airport?
Andrew: Oh yeah, we’ve got the busiest airport in Montana. But it’s still, it’s like…
Drew: Like a dirt runway, or is it actually paved over.
Andrew: Half of it’s dirt. But yeah it’s just tough. You can fly out of here but you’re going to pay a premium to get out of here so it’s tough. Drew what do you’ve got for New York City?
Drew: Number one is cost and it’s expensive to live here. It’s not just the housing, it’s sort of life is just expensive.
Andrew: Oh man, Bozeman is expensive relative to Montana. People in Bozeman always complain about how expensive housing is here relative to other places in the west, it is, but you can get a house with 2500 square feet, nice, decent yard on a less than an acre for 500K.
Drew: Yeah, so purchasing that would be 2.5 to 3.5 million, depending on where in Manhattan, I’m talking about Manhattan now. That’s without outdoor space. It’s just kind of like a million dollars per bedroom. Oh, and then like you mentioned earlier you have city and state taxes so at the upper tax bracket, it runs about 13 percent. So it’s easy to have like 50 plus percent of your income taxed here in the higher bracket. All this together means this it’s just super high hurdle for an entrepreneur. I struggled with this, because it really like the deck is stacked against you if you want to try to do something entrepreneurial. If you want to do something entrepreneurial, you’ve got to raise money to cover that nut. Or come up with some business idea that is profitable immediately. It just makes it really hard to be an entrepreneur. Let’s see the example we articulated is for a person who has a family. I think it’s probably easier if you want to be Ramen profitable and you’re just one man or woman who’s willing to, maybe you’re younger, you’ve got roommates, you live in outer Brooklyn or something like that, then your hurdle rate is a little bit lower, but if you’re in my situation, married with two kids, it’s just really hard to do something, to boot strap something under those conditions.
Andrew: Seems definitely more expensive. Drew what’s your number two?
Drew: Number two is it’s a big pond. It’s just harder to break out, I think if I lived in Montana for example, small pond I’d be the big fish. I’m like “the guy who started a company.” I might also be the attractive guy. The guy who…
Andrew: Wow, don’t take it that far.
Drew: The guy who didn’t marry a first…
Andrew: It must be a pretty small place right?
Drew: The guy who didn’t marry his first cousin. This is how the locals refer to me.
Andrew: There may not be a whole lot of us Montanans, but we’re well armed, remember that my friend.
Drew: Here in New York City, I’m none of these things. I’m just a guy. I’m just the guy you push out of the way on the way to work. It’s like do you want to be the big fish in the small pond or do you want to be just the big fish in the big pond. It’s just a lot harder to be that big fish in New York City.
Andrew: My number three for tough parts about Montana, you kind of touched on this is, is there’s definitely a smaller entrepreneurial scene here. Although Bozeman’s pretty decent like there’s good number of tech companies here and for a town this size, I think we have a much larger number of entrepreneurs and tech companies here than you’d expect, but definitely smaller, nowhere near of course San Francisco or New York City. It makes a little trickier to try to connect with people in your industry or in related industries to find people. So that’s definitely a down side. My number four is really limited public transportation. If you live in New York City and you have a car, nobody has a car I’m guessing in New York city. If you don’t have a car in Montana, good luck getting around. We have a real basic bus system that goes around to a couple of limited spots, but you cannot not have a car here. You have to have a car. Everything’s just so spread out and a 3-hour drive in Montana is not a big deal from corner to corner on the state, about 10 hours to get across from east to west, so yeah, that’s just something to where it’s, it doesn’t have to be insanely expensive but there’s something. Especially with the minimalist in me, I love the idea of going to a city and having the entire city just available to you via public transportation.
Drew: I love that really. When I moved here, I loved getting rid of my car. It’s just so liberating to not have to deal or think about it. I got stressed out driving, we’re just stuck in traffic and just to be able to have this great subway system where you can almost time warp to different parts of the city, you just go understand and come up somewhere else, that’s just awesome, I love that.
Andrew: Drew, what do you got for number four and number five?
Drew: My number three reason was talent was more expensive, you already touched on that. Number four would be stress and hands down, New York is probably one of the more stressful places to live in the entire world. It’s just, I’m thinking I was trying to make a list of what pissed me off this morning, just in preparation for this podcast. I came up with the following it was like, people who get on subways and then just stop. They get on the subways and they stop right in front of you, like they can’t let other people into the cars, so you have to go around them. Slow walkers on the sidewalk totally piss me off. People who stand in the stroller or wheelchair ramps on sidewalks. Now that I have a kid, like get out of the way. I got to push my stroller up there. The three short women who were around the salad bar at lunch and just slow, just moving slow. The last is Trader Joe’s and if anybody has ever been to a Trader Joe’s in New York, go to BuzzFeed and look for the article about Trader Joe’s on BuzzFeed and you’ll see what I mean. You walk into Trader Joe’s and the first thing you do is you look for the guy carrying the end of line sign who is, and then there’s like a middle of line sign. Because the line snakes around the entire Trader Joe’s and there’s really no room to move outside of the line. Everybody is in line. It’s just all these things together. People just piss you off after a while. There’s so many people here and they’re always in your face. They’re always slow that you just lose it.
I mean I often have to take this shuttle subway which goes between Times Square and Grand Central which is probably one of the more two most highly trafficked areas in New York city, and it is a bit of a cattle call. It’s perfectly acceptable to try to jam your way onto that subway. And not, you don’t have to say I’m sorry or anything. You just can push your way on and it’s just like the end of the day, when you’ve had a tough day, like you just don’t want to deal with that and you’re just wedged in like you’re a sardine, and it can be very stressful. I think this is my issue with New York, it’s just a totally stressful place to live.
Andrew: Yeah man, it’s, oh yeah, we have to talk offline about this. Maybe we can vent regularly to help you clear your head here.
Drew: Anybody listening to this from New York is probably nodding like, yep, yep.
Andrew: New York city, the best place to live in the world if you don’t mind being stressed 24/7 everyday. So my number five is, this is kind of a little distant one, you can tell I was really, really pulling to try to come up with downsides here, but if you’re running your warehouse, if you’re shipping out of Montana, you’re not in a major shipping hub, right. You might add a day, it might take a little while to get stuff. Ship times might take a little longer. And that was my distant number five. Granted, not super impactful, but I threw it in there.
Drew: I would say number five is it’s hard to have a family here. And it’s uh…
Andrew: Oh yeah.
Drew: It taps into my cost one, my stress one, it just the city is like a playground when you’re young and single and it’s just so fun, and as soon as you have kids, it just gets a little harder if you can imagine the subway system which we both raved about was so fun until you have a stroller and a kid and you got to get the kid in the stroller, down two flights of stairs and onto the subway, which is packed and off the subway. Just like that getting into school, applying to preschools, figuring out what to do with the kid when he’s bouncing off the wall and it’s raining and you live in a two bedroom apartment. These things all make it hard to have a family here. I think in many ways for me, it’s the ideal city to be in when you’re young and single and maybe when you’re old and retired. My wife and I talk about how cool it would be to be retired here because there’s so much to do to keep us active. It’s the years in between which are a little bit tough, and experiencing this toughness right now because I just had my second kid. I would say that’s definitely a con for New York. I think about full life you lead in Montana and just waking up to a house and open space and being able to throw open the door and let my kid run, like he’s a dog or something. I think that’s really in many ways where I am emotionally right now, and so yeah, that’s my final con for New York city.
Andrew: Well, there you got it, five pros and five cons for each of them. Drew, maybe we’ve kind of joked about this in the past, maybe we’ll have to. We can do a pretty little interesting case study where we do a house swap. You come to Montana for a week, we’ll flew out to New York for a week, we both have a couple of kids, and yeah, it’d be pretty interesting.
Drew: It’s probably the best scenario, I think we both agree on each, right? This is expensive and it’s hard, and it’s less expensive and easier to do things in Montana, but there’s more energy here and more diversity maybe the best of both worlds is having both.
Andrew: People always give Montana a hard time about diversity but like we have all sorts of different kinds of hunters. We have elk hunters, we have bird hunters, deer hunters, and I don’t think it’s fair, I really don’t. But I’d love to if you want to chime in, I’d love to hear the vitriol and hatred from all the New Yorkers after I attacked you for an entire half an hour, and same for the Montana constituency. Ecommercefuel.com. Weigh in, it’d be great to hear what you think about this. Drew as always man, this was one of my favorite episodes, fun topics to tackle and thanks for coming on and doing it.
Drew: Thank you, it’s a pleasure.
Andrew: That’s going to do it for this week, but if you’re interested in launching your own e-commerce store, download my free 55-page e-book on niche selection and getting started. If you’re a bit more experienced, look into the eCommerceFuel private forum. It’s a vetted community for store owners with at least 4,000 in monthly sales or industry professionals with at least a year or more experience in the e-commerce space. You can learn more about both the e-book and the forum at ecommercefuel.com. Thanks so much for listening, and I’m looking forward to seeing you again, next Friday.
What Was Mentioned
- Drew Sanocki | Mineral.io | Twitter
- Forbes: The Most (And Least) Business Friendly States by Mike Patton